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In forum: Lease Members
So, I have been off the river for about 2 1/2 weeks. I was doing a reschedule of the men who won the Auction at Troutfest to go fish the Guadalupe. We were scheduled to fish a couple of weeks ago and when fishing was great, but we had to change that to April 3rd. I went down to pre-fish Wednesday, arriving about 1pm. I started at Kanz. I saw many Trout but something was definitely off. I started nymph fishing at the weir. I caught one right off on a Darth Baetis. I briefly thought everything was going to be fine the following day. I saw fish mid column, but they were very sluggish. After not catching any more in a reasonable time I started fishing some dryflys. Again, I caught one in short order.
I had some more splashy rises/refusals and that was it. I went on down to the fish Grasshopper Run and the Patio Pool. Nymphing again, I zeroed, I started changing flys, hoping to find a magic combination, but nothing was working. I tried some streamers,… nope. I went back to the dryfly and again I caught some more, but it was not a magic ticket. I was really only getting reaction strikes, not a match the hatch, but well it’s right there I might as well eat it.
A guide boat came through and I started talking to them and seeing what they had caught. They had three fish in the boat since 8:30 and mostly upstream and earlier.
I had noticed the flows seemed lower, but I had not looked that morning. I later found out the flows had dropped to 55cfs. It was about 4pm when it finally dawned on me to take water temps… It was 68 degrees out in the current in the Patio Pool. It’s April 2 2025 and water temps were already getting to warm to ethically fish this far up in the tailrace. THIS IS TERRIBLE NEWS !!!!
I had planned on fishing as far down as Potts, but there’s no way now. I went up into the Tubers Loop and water temps were 66 degrees at 5:30pm. I fished there and the fish were willing to take the usual suspects nymphing.
I called the auction winner and told them what I had found and that it would probably be slim pickens. I suggested that we wait and fish next season when Trout fishing would be much better. But Jim was adamant about fishing now. He didn’t mind the challenge of fishing when the bite is tough. So, it was on.
Now comes Thursday, I wanted to fish as early as possible when water temps would be cooler. They were coming from Sugarland and the earliest we would meet would be 9am. I arrived a little earlier wanting to check water temps out first. They were already there. First, I was hoping it would be cool enough to fish the drop at Barking Dog Pool. We went to #5. There were 2 vehicles already there. I waded below the weir to check water temps. It was 66 degrees.
I went down to the drop and talked to the anglers there. I watched the water as we talked. They had landed nothing that morning. Not wanting to take the chance of taking Jim and Walter all the way down to the Lower Slot and Mountain Creek Pool, only to get there and already be close to 68. I went back up the hill and announced we were headed straight to Kanz.So, we drove to Kanz and below the weir it was 65 degrees at about 9:30am.
We started fishing and both Jim and Walter had fish on nymphs right away, but it was short lived. I tried a few different flys, but it didn’t make any difference. We tried fishing different angles and depths, but these fish were in a funk. I had my flyrod set up for fishing drys and made a few casts before moving downstream. I had a fish come up and strike, but didn’t hook up. This was a first cast kind of day as would be seen later. Subsequent casts had fish rising to look at the flys, but not take them.We headed down and tried the drop into Grasshopper Run. Zero….
We then went down to the Patio Pool. I set Walter up in the head to the Pool and Jim down at the deeper slabs. Walter scored first and missed another. Down in the deeper water we could see fish suspended, mid-column, the were swimming steadily in place. I could not see any feeding activity. There were the occasional splashy rises, but there was not really any adult insects or terrestrials on the surface. They were hitting either midge, Trico, or BWO emergers, but I could not see what they were. Jim really wanted to catch something on a dry, so I cut the fluoro out of the leader, build up a mono dryfly leader, and tied on a March Brown, the most likely drake. He used his rod with the Drake and mine with the attractors back and forth. He caught his first fish on a dry, I forgot which rod and fly he was using. But these were reaction bites again. He would make good drifts over holding Trout, and most the time they would not look, rise to inspect, or even spook. They just ignored it like it was even there.
I swapped Walter and Jim’s position, putting Walter in the deeper part of the pool between the first and third slabs and Jim up in the shallower head of the pool. I switched back and forth between the drake and the attractors and he caught more fish, but again. most strikes came as the fly landed or shortly thereafter… Reaction strikes, not really deliberate feeding strikes.
I guess it was about 1pm when I took water temps again and it was 67 degrees and time for Lunch.
From there I took them up to fish Whitewater to JDL. There the water temps were 66 degrees.
Jim caught Trout in the tailout of the pool on dryflys and Walter caught fish on the drop with nymphs.
About 3:30 tubers started showing up and we moved upstream. I wanted to fish the island holes and several groups of swimmers and tubers were there camped out in the water. So we moved on upstream.
We briefly looked at the top of the island hole, but with tubers moving through, we continued on to JDL. They had a few strikes in JDL, but none landed.
Jim and Walter kept trying to about 6pm, but the Trout were not very active. The splashy surface rises ceased. Soon after they bid their farewells and I told them I owed them a good trip next season and we’d do it again. I stayed and poked around myself for another hour or so. I landed a couple on nymphs and had a few splashy rises on drys, but none landed.
This will probably be my last trip to to Guadalupe River this year…..
I love fishing here, but I just cannot fish anymore this season if these flows and water temps persist….It’s very unfortunate. Flows are already lower than last summer. Water temperatures are much higher than I have seen at this time of years in decades. The feeding program will start shortly. I wanted to start earlier this year because I thought it would be beneficial and now with these the water temps it’s essential.
Last year we had flows most of the summer around 70cfs and bumps in the 90s for downstream demand. The holdovers in the fall were AMAZING !!!! The flows were just enough to keep water temps under 70 down to Mountain Creek. The feeding program kept them supplied with easy extra calories to get through the heat of summer and early fall. My fear is that this summer the flows won’t be enough, the temps will get too high and we will loose almost all the Trout population.
For those who wish to continue fishing for Trout, I would like for you to follow “Hoot Owl” Restrictions. Take water temperatures often. Move upstream to cooler water when they hit 68 degrees or quit fishing altogether. I would suggest no matter where you are fishing, fish only from dawn to about 1pm and then quit. Even if you release a Trout and the water temps are below 68, if the water temps go up into the 70’s that day, there is a good probability the fish won’t see another day.
For me, I will turn my interests to fishing the other Hill Country Rivers and Streams for Bass and Perch till I head north into the Rockies for my annual summer flyfishing Trip. I will also not fish the coming fall until temps have fallen into the mid 60’s all day. I hope you will consider doing the same.
Jimbo
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In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: Thanks to Jimbo
My only hope with feeding is to ensure we get as many fish as possible through the hot months. Any time your catching LOTS of big fish, the excitement does drop. Go spend some timne in the San Juan in NM. And that is a natural river full of big fish. This holds true for trout, bass, tuna, whater. I feel very appreciative to be able to fish a river where we can catch big fish. Thanks Jimbo!
In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: Thanks to Jimbo
Although I think that there are good arguments against feeding the trout, the one adduced by the board makes no sense. If we need to feed the fish at any time, the summer for example, to have significant holdovers, then our fishery is not self-sustaining. Winter feedings would have nothing to do with trout survival. The only feedings that might help some, if not, especially during low flow periods, most trout survive are during the summer. Consequently, if such feedings are instrumental to having a year-round fishery, then, by definition, this fishery is not self-sustaining.
However,if we removed the self-sustaining, part, the board’s argument is good. There is something artificial about a fishery where the fish are fed. It does feel a bit like fishing in a hatchery. So, I would also be against winter feeding, but, as explained above, not for the reasons offered by the board.
Finally, I’m less concerned about what the general public thinks than what is good for our river’s health. If feedings during any time of the year were shown (i.e., with good, objective data, not anecdotal reports) to be an integral component of our efforts to promote the vigor of our river and its residents, then I would support it without hesitation.
Alex
In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: Thanks to Jimbo
Well thanks everyone !!!! I have been walking around in a bit of a fog lately. There have been many things going on in my life that have me distracted and sometimes I wonder how I appear to everyone else. It is always very helpful when we have so many members willing to help with the stockings, as it is a lot of work carrying all those buckets into our LAP sites.
The first stocking the fish were a little smaller than we are normally receive from the Hatchery, then again high numbers are always nice on the first load. I am hoping they get a little larger on average in the next 3 loads. I will finish arranging the last two stocking dates and get those permits in hand. I wanted to do more feeding of the Trout through the winter and brought it up before at the recent GRTU Board meeting, but they voted it down. We will continue feeding them through the summer, so we still have that going for us.
It’s very nice, when I hear from our members that they like the way things are going.
Thank You !!!!
Jimbo Roberts
GRTU V.P. of FisheriesIn forum: Lease MembersTopic: GRTU V.P. of Fisheries
Dan Cone has been the V.P. of Fisheries for a number of years and has implemented several new programs like, the feeding of our Trout through the stressful summer months. This has led to an increase in the number and health of the Holdover Population of Trout as everybody has seen. Dan Cone has stepped aside from the V.P. because of some Family Issues, which require so much of his time, that he felt he could no longer give the V.P. of Fisheries the attention it deserves. Dan asked me if I could step in and handle the position for him. I said it would be my honor and the Board accepted this change. I would like to thank Dan again for the dedication he has shown to GRTU and the V.P. of Fisheries. We are all the better, for the time he has served!
Thank You
Jimbo Roberts
GRTU V.P. of Fisheries
210-415-6822In forum: Lease Members
1) The amount of the food available to the fish is dependent on habitat. And the main limiting thing right now is flows, or the volume of water the fish and the insects and prey fish have to occupy. So, the low flows have a more complex impact other than just temperature on the health of the game fish in the river. More flow increases the area and volume of the aquatic habitat everything from the smallest Midges to the largest Stripers can exist and multiply. It also increases the dissolved oxygen as it tumbles and moves downstream. Higher flows also work to remove silt in the river, allowing for more pore space in the streambed gravel, and thus increased areas and populations for the insects and small prey fish that live there.
When the flows are low and by that I mean below about 100-150cfs, the river has a limited capacity to sustain the top predators, like the Trout. So, feeding them during the summer when temperatures are high, especially when flows are low, the Trout are under a lot of stress. The higher water temperatures mean the fish metabolism is also running at higher level and they need more calories to sustain themselves. The feed is a very high calorie supplement that provides those calories and then some. You can see just how fat and healthy the survivors are in the fall after feeding them through the summer.
Should we feed them all year? That is a question we have not addressed. The supplemental feeding certainly keeps their stomachs full and they become accustomed to the size and timing of those feedings. Anyone who has tried to fish after the morning feeding are over, knows they will strike flys less frequently than on the day no feeding occurs. Now during the actual feeding, they are whipped into a frenzy and will hit flys floating in the feed itself. During the colder months, as water temperatures fall, the fish seem to do better because the metabolisms slow down and they need less calories. We also seem to have better hatches of Caddis and Mayflys during the winter and spring. It might help to feed the fish some during the winter and maybe the Fishery Committee should discuss this and talk to the board about it. I will bring up the subject this season.
2) Stream improvement projects were proposed decades ago. It is quite complicated as the river is controlled by the CORE (Army Corps of Engineers) and GBRA, with TPWD supporting. You can not just move some rocks around and permanently change the stream bed in any way without the approval of the CORE and GBRA, because Canyon Lake is primarily a flood control project. Thus, the primary function of the Canyon Lake Dam is to control flows downstream to prevent flooding of the areas adjacent to the river. Delivery of water downstream for agricultural or municipal use and power generation are secondary, with river biology falling behind everything else.
The first things we did accomplish to improve the Fishery were limited harvest regulations and the Flow Agreement. Both of these success’ have helped increase the possibility and realization of a Trophy Trout Fishery. That and with a strategy of the size and numbers of Trout we stock has greatly improved the fishing for Trout in the Guadalupe.
The question of what species of Trout to stock has never definitively decided. We are still playing with the idea that Brown Trout might be better at providing a self-sustaining Trout fishery. But so far, they have not been, and we don’t really know why. We do know that excessive siltation and other river predators have been a limiting factor on natural reproduction. We have stocked Brown Trout in the past of varying sizes, but they do not seem to hold-over as well as out specialized temperature tolerant Rainbow Trout from Crystal Lake Fisheries. Chris Johnson is spearheading a Whitlock/Vibert Box planting of Brown Trout eggs in an effort to see if a born in the river Brown Trout can establish a reproducing Brown Trout population or even a viable population of catchable Brown Trout.
GRTU proposed several stream improvement projects decades ago, primarily to better the habitat for the benefit of the Trout. We actually did get approval for the movement of aquatic plants into the upper river after the 2002 flood to restore the plants lost during the scouring flows.
We also proposed the stabilizing if the banks of Spillway Creek with willow trees to prevent excessive sedimentation from entering the river. That has been on hold for approval forever.
We also proposed a streambed modification in the Potts area, to prevent excessive impacts of high air temperatures on the river’s water flowing there and then affecting water temperatures downstream and limiting the preferred temperatures/habitat for the Trout downstream. We went so far as measuring flows vs stream width (most know how shallow and slow the water moves because the river is so wide there) and using ground penetrating sonar/radar to measure the depth of the gravel and bedrock in the area. The idea was to create structures that would naturally narrow and deepen the channel to speed the volume of water there and lessen higher air temperature impacts. Again, the base work was done, but approval to proceed was never given.
So, GRTU has been thinking about many things to improve the Habitat, better the survival, and even natural reproduction of the Trout populations in the Guadalupe. But it’s all the red tape that has held us back. Now these projects are still on our minds and when possible, we will do what is allowed to make the Guadalupe River a better Trout Fishery.
Jimbo
In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: Notice: LAP for 2024-25 closes Tuesday Night.
You’re right, Jimbo. The feeding program leaves us with a lot more, and a lot healthier, trout than we would have had without it. I should add that the people who do the actual feeding are among the nicest and most helpful folks one is likely to meet on the river.
Alex
In forum: Lease Members
Howdy
I just wanted to remind all those who have gone through the LAP registration process that signing up for this season’s LAP closes midnight Tuesday October 8 !!!!
We still have about 100 potential LAP members that have qualified but not signed up. Don’t miss out by waiting too long to pay for this year’s LAP season. We need the funds because the cost of Trout has gone up again this year $7/lb to $7.70/lb and we need the monies to support the program’s: fish, leases, and feeding program. And let me tell you, this feeding program that we established, is making a HUGE difference in the quality of the Trout holding over through the summer to the fall. I went fishing last week and these fish in the upper river are not just healthy, but down right fat !!!!
Thanks for everyone joining the LAP program. It is responsible as the primary generator of funds to pay for our stocking efforts on the Guadalupe. And you know what a difference it makes in the quality and numbers of Trout in the river to catch !!!!
See You on the River
Jimbo Roberts
In forum: Lease Members
The New Braunfels Fly Fishers annual holdover Tournament will be held on November 2.
This is NBFF’s one fundraiser of the year and helps support not only the club’s guest speaker budget, but also provides the money necessary for NBFF to provide each participant of the GRTU Youth Camp with a gift bag that includes items such as a fly box, hemostats, nippers, flies, and other accessories necessary to help them get started in fly fishing.
NBFF members spearhead the effort each summer for the GRTU trout feeding program, which has resulted in a marked increase in the numbers as well as the improved health of the rainbow trout that GRTU stocks each season.
Data collected from the tourney is shared with GRTU to help them better determine the overall viability of trout in the Guadalupe River tailrace.
Learn more by visiting:
In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: GRTU Spring 24 River Cleanup
We had a terrific turn-out with somewhere around 70 people showing up to help with the spring cleanup. In fact we had one group come from as far away as Rockport to help pick the trash up and out of the river.
Here is the crew I took to Kanz and JDL to clean those areas….
Everyone crossing the river to start at Kanz….
This group filled over 20 bags…. Good Goin’ !!!!After finishing up at JDL, Ron McAlpin was there with another “Trout In The Classroom” Rainbow Trout Fry release…..
We talked about the Guadalupe, our efforts to enhance the Trout Fishery, what is an evasive species, the Guad’s special harvest limits, and other conservation topics.The trailer being filled up with the collected trash back at Lazy L&L….
This and another couple of pickups beds worth was collected to help beautify our River….
Awards were given out for the most unusual trash collected. This boy and his father found and retrieved a wrought iron patio table. He received a flyrod for his efforts.
Another flyrod was given out for a Drone that was found.This volunteer came from Rockport and received shadow box with hand tied flies of a dragon fly and some bees, for the furthest a group traveled for the clean-up.
The New Braunfels Flyfishers were also well represented….
A special “Hello” to Ron Demeyer (on the far right) who wrangles the volunteers for the Trout Supplemental Summer Feedings for GRTU.All in all, what a fabulous group of volunteers to help doing the hard work of beautifying our river and share some burgers, drinks, and stories of the day and other days on the river. This is the GRTU in action that gets little attention, but it’s critical work to enhance the river and the fishery.
Jimbo
In forum: Lease Members
The New Braunfels Fly Fishers annual holdover Tournament will be held on November 4.
This is NBFF’s one fundraiser of the year and helps support not only the club’s guest speaker budget, but also provides the money necessary for NBFF to provide each participant of the GRTU Youth Camp with a gift bag that includes items such as a fly box, hemostats, nippers, flies, and other accessories necessary to help them get started in fly fishing.
NBFF members spearhead the effort each summer for the GRTU trout feeding program, which has resulted in a marked increase in the numbers as well as the improved health of the rainbow trout that GRTU stocks each season.
Data collected from the tourney is shared with GRTU to help them better determine the overall viability of trout in the Guadalupe River tailrace.
Learn more by visiting:
In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: Fish Schooling
GRTU trout feeding program. It was fish pellets you saw floating down stream. Twice a week, at about 8am, since last spring.
In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: Feeling lonely?
Ladies and Gentlemen
A Little Refresher Course
When I was drafted to be V.P. of Fisheries many years ago we had been stocking very large Trout in the river for several years. Then V.P. of Fisheries, Bill Higdon, had spoken with then river biologist Steve Magnelia and he had come away with the idea that Trout larger than 18″, would better survive when marginal conditions hit the Guadalupe in the summer. He had asked Steve Magnelia, if these larger Trout we had been stocking had higher rates of survival in higher water temperatures than smaller Trout. Steve answered that adult Trout did have higher survival rates when conditions got tough. Bill throught this was an affirmation of all the Trout, well over 18″, he had been stocking. Unfortuately Steve was talking about adult trout, and Trout become adults/sexually mature when they are 12″.
The membership was commenting that, yes they were catching giant Trout, but numbers caught during a day’s fishing were not what they had been. Then add to it the huge surge in fishermen fishing the Guadalupe River because of the very large Trout there and many harvesting these large Trout, things were not optimal. Previously we had been stocking generally Trout that were 10-14″ with a few trophies. Our strategy had swung too hard to the other end of the spectrum.
So new to V.P. of Fisheries I talked to Steve myself. That’s when I found out what the river biologist meant by “Large” trout (being 12″). I decided we needed to adjust out stocking strategy. I had some ideas and presented them to the board. The Board decided they sounded good, but we needed to find out what our membership wanted, because they were the ones paying for it with their LAP membership fees.
So we decided to send out a survey and give LAP membership a chance to pick between some alternative strategies. We explained that because they were going to pick the size of Trout we stocked they would also be picking the numbers of Trout we stocked since we buy them by the pound. The overwhelming responce called for 75% 14-18″ and 25% > 18″. Back then we were only stocking Rainbows from Crystal Lake Fisheries. We asked CLF if they could grow their Trout to meet our needs and they said yes.
Most years they have met our needs and stocking startegy. This past year they had their own problems raising Trout. They had problems with getting the feed they needed to grow their Trout out. You can thank COVID for creating this(another) problem in the supply chain. They also had a problem one year when a flood at the hatchery washed most of our 14-18″ fish down river, but that was a rare event.
During my tenure we saw expenses rise every year. So did the demand for LAP memberships. When I started the demand for membership in the 550-650 range. Every year we saw a rise in demand till it soared above 800 and decided we needed to cap membership because of limited access and easily meeting the expenses for Trout and Leases. We also saw the change in the regulations. We long wanted to protect the upper river from harvest. The new regulation: from 800 yards below the dam, to the crossing at 306/Whitewater, daily harvest of 5 Trout, BUT ALL Trout 12-18″ must be returned to the water, only 1 Trout(of the 5) could exceed 18″, all others had to be below 12″, and they must be caught using artificial flys or lures.
The last couple of years the Board has heard the request for more LAP memberships, so we added to those numbers, but still demand far out stripped the available memberships. I don’t think we will again ever be able to satisfy all the demand for all LAP memberships desired.
So here we are today. Doing our best to meet the demands of LAP membership and still providing a healthy fishery. I think Dan Cone, our new V.P. of Fisheries and the Fisheries Committee, has been doing the very best thing possible during these COVID years. One of the best things we has done (under the radar of most LAP members) is the suplemental feeding through the late spring to early fall. And without a doubt holdover has been better these last 2 seasons because of those feedings. We also have seen the constraints in the supply chain that finally resulted in not having the normal availability of almost any size or number of Trout we wanted this year. The hatcheries which grow this year’s Trout last year, have not been able to produce all those Trout for this season’s stocking. This is a national wide shortage.
As supply chains are restored I think you will a return to the availbility of almost any size or number of Trout we desire. The Board has also been talking about another survey of LAP members sometime this spring. The question about the sizes we want to stock can be addressed again, as will be other concerns. I think we all want some large Trout swimming around in the river that provide the thrill when hooking and landing these monsters. The question remains how many we want to stock? And of course we want to let the hatcheries know what sizes we want well ahead of time so they will be ready next season.
The GRTU Board, the V.P. of Fisheries, and the Fisheries Committee, will continue to do the very best we can to establish the best Trout Fishery we can and satisfy the desires of the LAP Membership. It is not easy. It takes 1000s of man hours to make it happen and still some years things are just out of our hands. But we will continue to try and improve the fishery. Eventually we will get back to river enhancement projects which should provide long term results, push for more restrictive regulations, and continue to promote catch and release of these sportsfish.
Jimbo
In forum: Lease MembersIn reply to: Results
And coffee beans, although not durable, look a lot like trout chow.
Alex, JC, Trey — really great review and reminders of tactics and technics to use on any trout stream!
I think that the quick change in trout activity on the Guad ,both on and off, is greater than other tail water fisheries , based on my experiences. So could it be due to two things that are unique to the Guad; (1) extreme pressure,even greater than the infamous Frying Pan, and (2) hatchery fish that do not carryover to acquire feeding behavior more typical of native/ wild or resident trout ? Maybe they do feed in short bursts just as trained at the Crystal Lake hatchery , just asking?
In forum: Lease MembersTopic: Tres Emergers On the Guad ?
I’ve watched a lot of trout feeding on emergers below the surface on the Guad and on Crabapple Creek. In the Fall 2021 issue of “TROUT”, Dave Whitlock describes his favorite way to catch big trout – a triple caddis emerger rig which he describes in more detail at http://davewhitlock.com//www/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FFMS-150028-WHITLOCK.pdf I’d be interested to know how this approach might work on the Guad after the fish acclimate from the hatchery diet to what lives in the Guad.
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This topic was modified 2 weeks ago by
