wiscoy
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I believe you may be confused, no one is asking to be allowed to purchase our LAP passes before TU members, but we do believe that we should be able to purchase BEFORE offering to the general public. The current system does not provide GRTU members that opportunity. Therefore, many long time members got left out of the program last year. We think that that was unfair to those that supported the LAP over the years and are voicing our concerns about it.
Wiscoy
Jimbo.
We hear you, but unless GRTU does a straw poll of existing LAP members, you cannot assume that 95% will renew that number is pure conjecture on your part. In the past years when registration required newbies to do an in person orientation there were always hundreds that attended those classes and in those days membership was around 650, so repeat LAP members were more like 60% not the 95% you are suggesting. Therefore, I suggest that a straw poll needs to be done to get a real number before October 1st in order to justify this position.
Ron
PS: oh boy now I receive a notice that the site is undergoing maintenance 9/20-21, 10 days before lease signup – what could go wrong there?
Jimbo,
A couple of questions.
1) Last year we had flows between 50 and 60 cfs all season long and the fish never spread out throughout the river and its looking like this year will be the same. Because of the conditions the ability of anglers to spread out was not really productive since the trout pooled and then the anglers hammered them all season. So please explain to me how adding a 150 new memberships solves any of these issues? In addition, as I recall most of the sites we lost were because of violations by newbies because were unfamiliar with the rules.
2) So why did GRTU not do a straw poll to find the number of existing LAP members that are planning to renew this year? One would think this approach would have been pertinent before increasing the total number of slots. This poll may have supported allowing long time members the ability to sign up early as was suggested and supported by many of our members.
I know that tough decisions need to be made, but the board dropped the ball this time.
Ron
I agree with Pat.
Wiscoy
George,
I understand that it is not only TU members on the river, but the overflow we get from the outfitters is really limited to just a handful – Whitewater, Rio, L&L, AA, and Rocky Beach. Other than Whitewater and Rio, which account for most of the other anglers, the anglers from the others are minimal. The whole point of my post was simply to address the future of this program and how to control its growth if we don’t get more lease sites to accommodate the increasing numbers of anglers. The need to increase cost will be inevitable since there is only so much river available to LAP members with the current leases which cost money and too much of a good thing just diminishes the enjoyment of the anglers that participate.
Wiscoy
I can live with a 1000 LAP members, but now either need to raise the cost to about $400-500/person or add a rod fee of $5-10 to each lease site to limit the number of anglers on each site rather than limiting parking. We all know that 5 parking spots at a lease site can mean as many as 20 anglers. Raising the fee will provide money to increase the number of lease sites and pay for the fish at each location. I can hear the groans now, but am sure that will not be long before start reading posts of members complaining that there are too many anglers on the river.
Fishing on the Guad 2022
Wiscoy
I agree with Alex, and like the idea of a heritage membership for long time supporters of the LAP.
Wiscoy
We can continue to throw out all kinds of solutions, but Jimbo’s post said the board had some proposals that were going to be voted on this month to address this issue. Hopefully, what ever solution they approve will work for everyone and imagine that the plan will need to be tweeted on a yearly basis until the LAP signup is once again a smooth running machine.
Wiscoy
So did I and was simple process. One point to note, had to turn off ad blockers in order to get to the license website. Maybe something we need to do before trying to buy LAP 2022 so things go smoothly. Just food for thought.
Wiscoy
All good points, but the bottom line is the current system no longer works since the program has gotten too popular and something needs to change. Process put forward is fairest to the masses and similar methods are used by others. So only other way is to raise the price until cost reduces demand for membership to the 850 available and no one wants that because it is clearly unfair to do that. So again a we need to find a Way for long term members to be able to get access before opening sales to the public, whateverthat may be since October 1st is coming fast.
One last thought, this problem did not exist until we made the process all online, maybe we should make newbies attend an on site orientation like the old days so it requires an actual commitment to GRTU, rather then just a ticket to fish the river.
Wiscoy
Not left out, but would have to sign up the same way you do now. Nothingwouldchange for you until you had 5 years under belt.
So you think it’s fair to force all of us that built and supported the program over the last 20 years, that would not exist today without us, to have to fight for a spot every year? Figures.
Wiscoy
Jimbo,
You missed the point, we are suggesting that members of the LAP for the last 5+ years be offered a renewal option prior to the general public sale. This should account for about 500 spots, leaving 350 for the rest of the people interested. Therefore, new folks would not be left out.
Ron
Interesting, we have 850 LAP members with access to this forum and only 6 have an opinion……………
Wiscoy
Jimbo,
While I too get up early and buy my pass first thing on the 1st, this year me and hundreds of our fellow anglers had the same idea and the system crashed. It took me 3 hours to accomplish the task at hand that used to take 10 minutes and then ended up with 2 memberships for a short time. Basically, the current system no longer works as intended and some charges need to be made. I suspect that this year there will be even more trying to get their pass at 7AM on the 1st and have no doubt that the system will again experience issues. Therefore, what we suggested was for a way for those of us that have supported the program the longest to be granted some form of early access to renew our pass before going out to the general public. This does not seem unreasonable. The early access could simply be setting up a queuing system (https://www.qmatic.com/solutions/queue-management/), like Ticketmaster does when they sell tickets online, allowing past LAP members to go online say 30 minutes earlier to get a spot in line to renew their access permits. An email blast could be sent to those with 5+ years of program membership with a an access code to begin the process. Will this work? I have no idea, but we are at least trying to make the system work for all of us. One last point about the queue system, it would give Dustin control over how many can access the site at any given time and provide control to stop the system from crashing.
Hope your Rockies fishing trip has been productive 🙂
SYOTR, assuming I can renew my access this year………..
Ron
PS: Just checked Texas Hill Country FF site lease program and even they offer renewals to previous members BEFORE going to the public – https://thcff.org/trout-lease, I suspect we could learn something here…………
Thanks Jimbo,
Glad to hear you are out fishing the Rockies, enjoy 🙂
All the things you just named about Trout Fest, Kid’s Camp et al are exactly the things that could have been provided in a newsletter. There is no reason that it could not have happened, Covid or not.
Concerning your comment, “LAP will probably be a mad dash for membership signup again”, I agree with Alex. I think that prior to the October 1st signup that all the veterans that have been members of the LAP for 5+ years should be offered the chance to renew their LAP membership before putting them on sale to the rest of the public. This approach would probably fill ~ 300-400 spots leaving the rest, ~450-550 memberships, available to new members. I believe this would be the fairest approach that could be implemented with the least amount of pain to the process. Remember that over the last 20 years (years I have been LAP member) there were some seasons we barely sold all the LAP memberships. So us long term members need to be provided an opportunity to continue to support the program, that probably would not exist today if not for our continued support over the years, and make the renewal process more responsive to the less computer savvy veterans.
Ron
